31 August, 2011
Here we go again
Those inventive chappies at Hope not Hate have put up a remarkable set of photographs, altogether too remarkable in my entirely unhumble opinion, purporting to show leading EDLers posing for the camera with a variety of firearms in a variety of largely private settings.
Evidently an element of the ongoing campaign to associate Anders Breivik with the EDL, it builds upon the deliberate misinterpretation of Tommy Robinson's comment after the Breivik atrocity that a similar atrocity in the UK was probable within the next five years to unjustifiably imply that the EDL intends to carry out or foment such an atrocity.
Well, I leave it to others with more knowledge of firearms than I to comment on the plausibility and effectiveness of the motley collection of weapons on display — the last time I handled a rifle was 50 years ago when I was in the CCF at school.
And I leave to the Photoshop experts the analysis of the authenticity of the photos; though I wish you luck given that they are so highly compressed that the typical filesize is 5 to 10K. Why might that be? Some may be real but innocent. What to make of the photograph supposedly of "James Clarke (Nottingham EDL)", for example, posing with a firearm in front of an RAF banner of some kind? A joke pose at an ex-serviceman's gathering, maybe?
But, as I say, I'll leave all that to others better equipped and just offer you one thought. Not so much a reductio ad absurdum, more a reductio ad testiculos totales.
Let's suppose that these photos are all genuine and represent what they are implied to represent. If the EDL are a genuine and serious emergent terrorist organization, do you really think the leadership would allow such pictures to be taken at all, let alone circulated in some manner? If the pictures are truly what they are made out to be, then we can only conclude that the EDL are a bunch of useless Walter Mitty muppets who, given a modicum of attention by the security services, are no real threat to anyone except themselves.
In a word, bollocks.
Oh, and incidentally, did anything ever come out of HnH's last splendid effort in this field, the famous EDL photoshoot? That's gone very quiet, hasn't it? No arrests then?
Evidently an element of the ongoing campaign to associate Anders Breivik with the EDL, it builds upon the deliberate misinterpretation of Tommy Robinson's comment after the Breivik atrocity that a similar atrocity in the UK was probable within the next five years to unjustifiably imply that the EDL intends to carry out or foment such an atrocity.
Well, I leave it to others with more knowledge of firearms than I to comment on the plausibility and effectiveness of the motley collection of weapons on display — the last time I handled a rifle was 50 years ago when I was in the CCF at school.
And I leave to the Photoshop experts the analysis of the authenticity of the photos; though I wish you luck given that they are so highly compressed that the typical filesize is 5 to 10K. Why might that be? Some may be real but innocent. What to make of the photograph supposedly of "James Clarke (Nottingham EDL)", for example, posing with a firearm in front of an RAF banner of some kind? A joke pose at an ex-serviceman's gathering, maybe?
But, as I say, I'll leave all that to others better equipped and just offer you one thought. Not so much a reductio ad absurdum, more a reductio ad testiculos totales.
Let's suppose that these photos are all genuine and represent what they are implied to represent. If the EDL are a genuine and serious emergent terrorist organization, do you really think the leadership would allow such pictures to be taken at all, let alone circulated in some manner? If the pictures are truly what they are made out to be, then we can only conclude that the EDL are a bunch of useless Walter Mitty muppets who, given a modicum of attention by the security services, are no real threat to anyone except themselves.
In a word, bollocks.
Oh, and incidentally, did anything ever come out of HnH's last splendid effort in this field, the famous EDL photoshoot? That's gone very quiet, hasn't it? No arrests then?
# posted by Edwin Greenwood @ 13:03 
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A couple are double barrelled shotguns : presumably legally held. The gimp with the two pistols could be holding replicas, illegally owned real items, converted Brocock guns, or airguns. A couple of the pics show a WW2 vintage 'Schmeisser' submachine gun: again, either a replica or deactivated original or, less likely a working original. One of them has a crossbow, a good half a dozen show air rifles (with telescopic sights, ooh!), and the chap in front of the RAF flag was most likely pictured at an RAF recruitment thing.
So, some chimps with (legal) airguns and crossbows,(presumably legal) shotguns, one chap who things he's a Gangsta, one who asked the RAF if he could hold one of their guns while his mate takes a piccie, and a bloke who collects vintage firearms.
No matter what you might think about posting pics on the net of yourself with your weapon on display, you can find worse stuff being waved about on the facebook pages of all 'Da Crewz' from the inner cities.
The armed wing of the EDL: a threat to rabbits, pigeons and rats. To society? Not so much.
So, some chimps with (legal) airguns and crossbows,(presumably legal) shotguns, one chap who things he's a Gangsta, one who asked the RAF if he could hold one of their guns while his mate takes a piccie, and a bloke who collects vintage firearms.
No matter what you might think about posting pics on the net of yourself with your weapon on display, you can find worse stuff being waved about on the facebook pages of all 'Da Crewz' from the inner cities.
The armed wing of the EDL: a threat to rabbits, pigeons and rats. To society? Not so much.
# posted by 
: 31 August, 2011 14:12
: 31 August, 2011 14:12
PS the more I look at this, the more I feel like weeping.
Its a stated fact (by UK 'intelligence services' IIRC) that there are somewhere in the region of 3000 Muslims in the UK who have had training in Jihadi camps in Pakistan and elsewhere. There they would have learned to handle modern small arms, grenades, explosives, and, e.g., rocket launchers.
Given the ease with which Da Gangstaz can obtain military grade weaponry (google 'MAC 10 SMG'. They found one of these under the bed of a ten year old kid in Harlesden not so long back.) you're kidding yourself if you think there aren't plenty of AK47's and RPG's floating around certain communities within these shores, to say nothing of all the DIY explosives we know to be so popular among various cultural groups.
And what weaponry can the demonic forces of the Far-Right muster?
Air rifles. Bloody airguns. Items (for the hard of understanding) which expell little lead pellets by the force of compressed oxygen. Not 'fire arms': AIR guns. They don't go 'Bang!', they go 'Pfft'. They are only remotely lethal if you hit somebody repeatedly over the head with the wooden end.
And this is the big threat the left thinks we should be terrified of? This is where the forces of law and order,moral outrage and media output are going to be focussing their attention? On a few Billy Beer-Bellies with air guns?
As a country, a race , and a nation, my friends; we are comprehensively f*cked.
Its a stated fact (by UK 'intelligence services' IIRC) that there are somewhere in the region of 3000 Muslims in the UK who have had training in Jihadi camps in Pakistan and elsewhere. There they would have learned to handle modern small arms, grenades, explosives, and, e.g., rocket launchers.
Given the ease with which Da Gangstaz can obtain military grade weaponry (google 'MAC 10 SMG'. They found one of these under the bed of a ten year old kid in Harlesden not so long back.) you're kidding yourself if you think there aren't plenty of AK47's and RPG's floating around certain communities within these shores, to say nothing of all the DIY explosives we know to be so popular among various cultural groups.
And what weaponry can the demonic forces of the Far-Right muster?
Air rifles. Bloody airguns. Items (for the hard of understanding) which expell little lead pellets by the force of compressed oxygen. Not 'fire arms': AIR guns. They don't go 'Bang!', they go 'Pfft'. They are only remotely lethal if you hit somebody repeatedly over the head with the wooden end.
And this is the big threat the left thinks we should be terrified of? This is where the forces of law and order,moral outrage and media output are going to be focussing their attention? On a few Billy Beer-Bellies with air guns?
As a country, a race , and a nation, my friends; we are comprehensively f*cked.
# posted by : 31 August, 2011 14:57
: 31 August, 2011 14:57
As already said, most of them are air rifles which don't even need to be licenced. Most of the lads in our warehouse own stuff like that.
The two pistols are also airguns.
There is one crossbow that also doesn't require a licence.
Two shotguns, both double barell, one side by side and one over and under. These need a licence but as long as you have no criminal record they are fairly easy to obtain. (I own one single barel shotgun and one pump action)
Asside from that there are a few that look like machine guns. I don't know too much about these but they are probably either deactivated or airguns made to look like machine guns.
The two pistols are also airguns.
There is one crossbow that also doesn't require a licence.
Two shotguns, both double barell, one side by side and one over and under. These need a licence but as long as you have no criminal record they are fairly easy to obtain. (I own one single barel shotgun and one pump action)
Asside from that there are a few that look like machine guns. I don't know too much about these but they are probably either deactivated or airguns made to look like machine guns.
Lets hope UAF doesn't get hold of a picture of a white bloke in a baseball cap waving a teaspoon about in an aggressive manner, or we're all in the sh*t.
# posted by : 31 August, 2011 15:47
: 31 August, 2011 15:47
Most informative, gents, thank you. As I say, I haven't had reason to take a practical interest in guns since I was at school. The rifles we used then were so ancient that we assumed they were WD surplus from the Boer War!
And in the case of Bobo's second comment, most depressing.
Makes you wonder how many of those incriminating snaps of people giving Hitler salutes that the Antifash are so keen on are really just people taking the piss. It's a gesture I make all the time to bus drivers, most of them Black, when I would like them to stop for me. Heaven forfend that they might be activists in the UAF.
And in the case of Bobo's second comment, most depressing.
Makes you wonder how many of those incriminating snaps of people giving Hitler salutes that the Antifash are so keen on are really just people taking the piss. It's a gesture I make all the time to bus drivers, most of them Black, when I would like them to stop for me. Heaven forfend that they might be activists in the UAF.
Taliban 'radio chatter'in Afghanistan regularly features homely accents from Dewsbury and Bradford, amongst other UK regional patterns. Numbers of Al Shabaab fighters in Somalia are found to be UK passport holders. Just a couple of examples. Don't get me started on the Kossovo thing.
The threat of a Bombay style 'walk and gun' domestic terrorist attack is being taken very seriously by security orgs in the UK. The SAS and, I think, the Parachute Regt and the SBS have formed some kind of joint response centre in London: there was a very brief report about it in the media a year or two ago. Thats not the sort of thing you set up on a whim, or because a few EDL have got air rifles. The mention of it I came across was a bland one or two liner, with no speculation as to why such a response centre was thought necessary; but even so I was quite surpirsed to see it mentioned at all.
Obviously major urban centres, esp London are the most probable targets for such an attack; but, grumpy old curmudgeon that I am, I can't help thinking a 'Beslan' style event might not serve equally well. Plenty of media time whilst you 'negotiate' with the government: and a nice dramamtic denouement for the Lions of Islam when it all goes tits up. A stroll down Oxford Street with your AK blazing will guarantee you entry to paradise in short order, but a hostage situation at, say, a sleepy rural primamry school will generate inspiring live airtime around the world.
The threat of a Bombay style 'walk and gun' domestic terrorist attack is being taken very seriously by security orgs in the UK. The SAS and, I think, the Parachute Regt and the SBS have formed some kind of joint response centre in London: there was a very brief report about it in the media a year or two ago. Thats not the sort of thing you set up on a whim, or because a few EDL have got air rifles. The mention of it I came across was a bland one or two liner, with no speculation as to why such a response centre was thought necessary; but even so I was quite surpirsed to see it mentioned at all.
Obviously major urban centres, esp London are the most probable targets for such an attack; but, grumpy old curmudgeon that I am, I can't help thinking a 'Beslan' style event might not serve equally well. Plenty of media time whilst you 'negotiate' with the government: and a nice dramamtic denouement for the Lions of Islam when it all goes tits up. A stroll down Oxford Street with your AK blazing will guarantee you entry to paradise in short order, but a hostage situation at, say, a sleepy rural primamry school will generate inspiring live airtime around the world.
# posted by : 31 August, 2011 16:23
: 31 August, 2011 16:23
I haven't seen the photos, but I have a vague memory that six months or so back various left blogs featured various righties with convincing-ish looking weapons - taken I think at a BNP or EDL social for BB or Airsoft gunners i.e. not as powerful as an air rifle. I think at least one was taken in front of a flag.
Maybe they're recycling the pics while Anders Breveik is still 'hot'.
Maybe they're recycling the pics while Anders Breveik is still 'hot'.
"...purporting to show leading EDLers posing for the camera with a variety of firearms in a variety of largely private settings. "
And if they're legally held, so what?
Hoplophobes... *spit*
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And if they're legally held, so what?
Hoplophobes... *spit*
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